[Text] [Anon]

[grapeeater]

[He's been thinking over this for days. Is it his duty or not? It's not like he really needs the opinions of other people... but maybe another perspective might not hurt. Not like any of them here are normal, but some... are closer than he was.]

I've got a question. If you don't care, feel free to skip this over - there's no obligation to answer.

Say you're someone powerful, whatever that means to you. You might have money, you might have skills, or you might have whatever else that gives you an advantage over other people.

Now say there's a threat, something that risks destroying you and the people you have an advantage over. If you do nothing, you might be safe but other people would die. But if you give everything, they might be safe but you would die.

How much are you obligated to give? Be selfish and survive? Or sacrifice yourself for people who might not be thankful? And why?

Comments

[anon text]

[whitehairedprettyboy]

This is hardly a question, really. Why on earth would I sacrifice myself for anyone else?

text;

[loveisanopendoor]

Well, that's obvious. If you have power over your people, then it's up to you to make sure you're doing what's best for them. If there's something that threatens both you and your people, you have to give as much as you can to make sure they're being accommodated for. Your power, if you think about it, comes from the consent of the people, so they're your priority. I mean, if you being there and your power over them is what's making the best scenario for them, in your eyes, you should do what you can to keep yourself in that position, as well. But you have to think about what it is that the people are going to need to prosper, even if it means putting yourself at a personal risk! It's the risk that anyone in a position of power over others has, and it's not something that should be taken lightly at all.

[A princess knows these things, after all! She might not be the most elegant or sophisticated princess, of course, but no one knows the importance of selflessness better than Anna does.]

Have you ever heard of the story of Damocles?

[anon text forever]

[preybeforemeals]

That depends on how important those people are to you.

You're never obligated to die for anyone else. The complication comes in that some people are good at making you think they're worth dying for.

[anon text]

[grapeeater]

Because sometimes they're people you care about.

[forever and ever]

[grapeeater]

One of them in particular I care about more than anything else.

anon foreverrrrr;

[grapeeater]

So in your eyes, if it threatens them and you're above them, you have an obligation to keep them safe?

[It sounds like Takatora, really. But the real Takatora, not... what he's been hearing for months. Not judging him for his mistakes - not really. Just stating their values again and again until he gets it.]

The name sounds familiar. Something about a sword?

[anon text]

[whitehairedprettyboy]

Well, there's your problem, then, isn't it?

[preybeforemeals]

Enough that you would want to die for them?

[anon text]

[grapeeater]

Is it?

[grapeeater]

For me? ... I'd want nothing more than her happiness. So if it came to it... yes.

Though I'm interested in what you would do.

[preybeforemeals]

I have someone who's more important to me than anyone or anything else that I know of.

It's not right to say that I would die for them, however - that isn't how I would word it.

[grapeeater]

Then how would you word it?

[loveisanopendoor]

Well, I'm a princess, so when I'm back home I always need to make sure what I do is the best for the people in my kingdom. I don't think that necessarily means you should do so by any means necessary, though! My sister Elsa is the queen, so she's a lot better with this sort of thing than I am; she's a really fair and just ruler, and she goes to really big lengths to make sure that everyone in Arendelle is taken care of.

[She's positive that their parents would be very proud of her.]

But it's not always easy. Being in charge of a kingdom can be really stressful, and all of the responsibility over the people drains her a lot sometimes, even though she has a lot of power. But if the people are happy, and they trust her, it's worth it! And I certainly agree with that, so I try to help her as much as I can. She knows she doesn't have to go through it alone, and that makes it a bit easier on her, too, I think.

The story of Damocles, though...Damocles was a man who wasn't of a very high social status, and he told his king, Dionysius, that he was very fortunate to have such power and all of the luxuries that come with it! And he suggested that the two of them should switch places for a day, so that the King could truly see just how fortunate he is to have such power. And Dionysius was very quick to oblige him, and he very eagerly made the arrangements so that the two of them could switch! So the next day, Damocles sits on the King's throne, happy that he's surrounded by all of the benefits that come with being King for the day...that is, until he looks up, and sees a giant sword right over his head, hanging only by a single hair from a horse's tail! And Damocles begs the King to leave the throne because he realizes now that to have power means that you have to come to terms with the responsibility that comes with it, and also realize how easy losing it can be...

[preybeforemeals]

"Dying for" someone implies a level of self-sacrifice that I'm not interested in giving to anyone. I'm not here to be anyone's shield; I won't serve as anyone's armor.

However, I can be their sword, should they be important enough to me.

I'll do whatever I can for them, but I do it because I choose to do it, not because it's my purpose or because I'm obligated to do so. I won't die for them, but I'll fight for them; if that fight results in my death, then it does so because I wasn't able to prevent things from working out that way.

Saying that I "would die for" the person I care about removes my agency from the situation, and furthermore it implies that it's their fault if I die, which is a little insulting to both of us, I think.

[anon text]

[whitehairedprettyboy]

I'd certainly say so. If there's any benefit in caring about people, I haven't yet encountered it.

[anon text]

[grapeeater]

You've never fallen in love?

[If that's even what this is...]

[grapeeater]

... I think I see your point. But... there's very little I wouldn't do to keep her safe. And I'm better as armor than I am as a sword. I'm not the sort to run into battle foolishly. Usually, at least. Defending... I can do.

It doesn't really matter here, I guess.

[grapeeater]

A princess? Huh. But... what if someone were invading? Would you fight at the front lines for them? Or would you stay back and try to direct things from there?

... While I see the point of the story... wasn't Dionysius a god? Why did he have something like that around? Why was he being a king rather than a god, anyway?

[anon text]

[whitehairedprettyboy]

[ His reply comes a few minutes later than usual. ]

Not as such.

[preybeforemeals]

I know someone like that as well. I won't say I agree with what they do, but apparently their contributions are important to the person we're both working for.

And really, if you're running into battle foolishly then you're probably doing it wrong; I don't do that, either. Plans are more than acceptable.

Did you decide to do anything, in your case? It's a specific question to ask with no basis.

[loveisanopendoor]

Well, thankfully, Arendelle is a very peaceful kingdom, and there hasn't been a war in a very very long time!! ...But if there was, Heaven forbid? I'd fight alongside them, without a doubt. I can't just stay back while my people need all of the support they can get..

Maybe he's just that kind of guy who was waiting a very long time for someone to ask him that? I think they're just two different Dionysiuses!!

[anon text]

[grapeeater]

That's a shame.

[Maybe. It's kind of a hassle... and it hurts...]

[grapeeater]

That was my feeling. I couldn't let the happiness of the people I cared about get taken away.

... Maybe. It still seems strange.

[grapeeater]

I did. I ended up trying to defend her. It wasn't enough, I guess.

[loveisanopendoor]

Oh, that's great!! That there are people who are important to you enough that you'd fight to make them happy, I mean...I hope it never comes to that, but I know I'd make any sacrifice I had to if it meant my sister could be happy. I know she would do the same for me.